Post by JulianMartin on Feb 5, 2018 18:25:58 GMT
Hai all.
Not sure if anyone has attacked this one. I am an amateur radio enthusiast, I have 2 callsigns, 2E1JJM and M3JJM - you can look this up with the RSGB and with Ofcom - the UK's governmental body for communications.
It occured to me that a while ago I was trying something nicknamed "moonbounce" - also known as EME or earth to moon to earth communications. Effectively, a ham radio user has a very directional form of an antenna, normally a Yagi beam that produces a very directional and efficient emission, aims it rather accurately at the moon using various calculations, and can then gauge roughly where the signal will arrive on earth after bouncing off the moon. Most importantly, there is a time delay in this which is quite measurable, and the curvature of the earth plays a part in this.
In my case I was using a standard standard Cushcraft Yagi beam on the 6 metre wavelength band, aka 50MHz. With a low discharge of power, 50 watts to be specific on my 2E1JJM callsign, I successfully achieved bounce from southern england to another user in russia, more specifically leningrad with the callsign RN3LLP (this corresponds to central russia). Now I know the rough distance that my transmissions took due to the time lag bouncing off the moon - and these only agree with a slight curve of the earth's face. On top of that, my communications would not have got so far on such a large wavelength transmission with relatively minimal power if the earth was flat.
On top of this, ham radio users using much larger wavelengths, like the 40m and 17m bands, know roughly how far their signal will go due to their emissions (depending on their antenna) being a proportionate resonate distance of their wavelength that can be targetted with specific angles using directional antennas at the top layers of the atmosphere (F2 layer specifically) and then reflect off the atmosphere. Using this method, one can work out how far a single atmospheric reflection will take a signal back down to sea level depending on time of day (the atmosphere rises and sinks with sunlight exposure due to temperature fluctuations); and crucially how long it will take, using speed of light calculations. This certainly confirms a round earth.
On top of this point I've just made, the nail in the coffin supplied by ham radio, is that depending on the conditions, the quality of the antenna, and how the weather is doing round the world, it is actually possible on the very very long wavelength bands (160m and 80m for example), to bounce a signal off the F2 layer, and then to the earth again, and back upto the F2, several times, to the point where a signal will circumnavigate the globe, and providing one gets their power adjustments just right, once can receive their own signal a second or two later after initial transmission. I have in fact witnessed my father doing this (his radio license allows more power, G0WKL is his callsign), on a completely omnidirectional HF dipole (proving that you don't even need my specifications to do it) made by cushcraft (an R8, available here www.wsplc.com/acatalog/CUSHCRAFT_HF_Vertical_Antennas.html) with about 190W of power on the 40m band.
Let me re-iterate. Directional Electromagnetic radition that circumnavigates the earth, is NOT possible on a dual flat plane of reflection; let alone omnidirectional. It would be emitted to into space. A dual spherical plane of reflection (i.e. RE) is the only way without using ridiculous reflection repeater arrays positioned at incredibly lucky points along your "ice wall", to produce the effect I have described above. Goto any Ham radio forum and ask if HF circumnavigation is possible and if anyone has experienced it. No end of people have - I am not the only one. The ham radio community is so small, that NASA or any of your government agencies wouldn't even consider ploughing the tens of billions required to reproduce this effect on a flat plane.
Not sure if anyone has attacked this one. I am an amateur radio enthusiast, I have 2 callsigns, 2E1JJM and M3JJM - you can look this up with the RSGB and with Ofcom - the UK's governmental body for communications.
It occured to me that a while ago I was trying something nicknamed "moonbounce" - also known as EME or earth to moon to earth communications. Effectively, a ham radio user has a very directional form of an antenna, normally a Yagi beam that produces a very directional and efficient emission, aims it rather accurately at the moon using various calculations, and can then gauge roughly where the signal will arrive on earth after bouncing off the moon. Most importantly, there is a time delay in this which is quite measurable, and the curvature of the earth plays a part in this.
In my case I was using a standard standard Cushcraft Yagi beam on the 6 metre wavelength band, aka 50MHz. With a low discharge of power, 50 watts to be specific on my 2E1JJM callsign, I successfully achieved bounce from southern england to another user in russia, more specifically leningrad with the callsign RN3LLP (this corresponds to central russia). Now I know the rough distance that my transmissions took due to the time lag bouncing off the moon - and these only agree with a slight curve of the earth's face. On top of that, my communications would not have got so far on such a large wavelength transmission with relatively minimal power if the earth was flat.
On top of this, ham radio users using much larger wavelengths, like the 40m and 17m bands, know roughly how far their signal will go due to their emissions (depending on their antenna) being a proportionate resonate distance of their wavelength that can be targetted with specific angles using directional antennas at the top layers of the atmosphere (F2 layer specifically) and then reflect off the atmosphere. Using this method, one can work out how far a single atmospheric reflection will take a signal back down to sea level depending on time of day (the atmosphere rises and sinks with sunlight exposure due to temperature fluctuations); and crucially how long it will take, using speed of light calculations. This certainly confirms a round earth.
On top of this point I've just made, the nail in the coffin supplied by ham radio, is that depending on the conditions, the quality of the antenna, and how the weather is doing round the world, it is actually possible on the very very long wavelength bands (160m and 80m for example), to bounce a signal off the F2 layer, and then to the earth again, and back upto the F2, several times, to the point where a signal will circumnavigate the globe, and providing one gets their power adjustments just right, once can receive their own signal a second or two later after initial transmission. I have in fact witnessed my father doing this (his radio license allows more power, G0WKL is his callsign), on a completely omnidirectional HF dipole (proving that you don't even need my specifications to do it) made by cushcraft (an R8, available here www.wsplc.com/acatalog/CUSHCRAFT_HF_Vertical_Antennas.html) with about 190W of power on the 40m band.
Let me re-iterate. Directional Electromagnetic radition that circumnavigates the earth, is NOT possible on a dual flat plane of reflection; let alone omnidirectional. It would be emitted to into space. A dual spherical plane of reflection (i.e. RE) is the only way without using ridiculous reflection repeater arrays positioned at incredibly lucky points along your "ice wall", to produce the effect I have described above. Goto any Ham radio forum and ask if HF circumnavigation is possible and if anyone has experienced it. No end of people have - I am not the only one. The ham radio community is so small, that NASA or any of your government agencies wouldn't even consider ploughing the tens of billions required to reproduce this effect on a flat plane.
